Cali Alpert:
Welcome to Dropping In from Omega Institute, a podcast that explores the many ways to awaken the best in the human spirit. I'm Cali Alpert. Dropping in today, Matt Kahn. Matt is a spiritual teacher, empathic healer and the bestselling author of Whatever Arises, Love That, Everything Is Here To Help You, The Universe Always Has a Plan and the forthcoming Holding Space.

Cali Alpert:
Matt's spontaneous awakening arose from an out-of-body experience in early childhood and through what he calls direct experiences with ascended masters throughout his life. Using his intuitive abilities of seeing, hearing, feeling and direct knowing, Matt brings forth revolutionary teachings that assist in healing the body, awakening the soul and transforming reality through the power of love. Welcome Matt, thank you for dropping in virtually today. It's so good to see you and hear you.

Matt Kahn:
Ah, so great to be here. Thanks for having me. It's a true honor.

Cali Alpert:
Thank you for making the time. I'd like to start this interview with a quote that I once heard from a very wise man. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. This is actually your quote. I don't know if you were going to call my bluff before I even said it. But this is your quote that you often say in your courses and engagements to rooms full of strangers.

Cali Alpert:
I remember the first time I heard you do that and I thought, "Wow." I'm curious, what does it mean to exude so much love to people you don't really know? And how does this mantra of yours redefine what it means to love?

Matt Kahn:
Yeah, it's a great point and something I've actually never really thought about. I think for me, after going through so many significant awakenings and consciousness, there's couple of reasons. One is that there's just this inherent recognition that no matter how we are acting, no matter the motivations that really run our subconscious and no matter what quality of human being we seem to be embodying on this planet, which of course is always going to evolve and change and grow, there's this inherent recognition that divinity is meeting itself in this human play.

Matt Kahn:
And I think for me, there became this very... It's interesting because it's almost like in personal recognition, that includes all the aspects of the person. And so, for me, when I went through the awakenings I went through, there just became this natural respect for each person's spirit, even while watching the gritty details of their journey play out through their ego.

Matt Kahn:
I think on a personal level, the other reason I have been someone who has received these downloads from the universe is I spent so much of my early life, my childhood, my adolescence, people pleasing, trying to win popularity contests and really living a life of empathic codependency, where I misunderstood people's feelings as their opinions of me.

Matt Kahn:
So, if people weren't always in a state of joy, I thought I did something wrong. And what I found throughout my life is that it was more of an immediate sense of fulfillment to be respectful to other people, even if they weren't respectful back to me than trying to get other people to see me a certain way. Which after many years of doing this was just exhausting.

Matt Kahn:
And so, a lot of times when people get into this experience of I'm tired of people pleasing and trying to win people's affection, sometimes people shut down and they just become resentful and shut off.

Cali Alpert:
Right, defeated.

Matt Kahn:
And for me, that really, for some reason never happened. I just discovered that being nicer to other people no matter how they were treating me infused my body with the feeling of what it felt like when other people approved of me. And I think that for me, that was a really clear shift.

Matt Kahn:
And I also found that in being nice to myself, although I was never truly mean to myself, I found that being nice to myself just as I'm nice to other people really gave me the most fulfilling experience of every moment in time that things are going to happen, surprising things are going to occur, unexpected losses are going to occur, just like unforeseen gains will happen.

Matt Kahn:
And if we can be nice to ourselves and respectful of each other without being a doormat, or a people pleaser, or enabling toxic, abusive behavior, we find that instead of someone else holding the key to our fulfillment, we actually become the fulfillers of our own reality when we learn to engage with human beings in this heart-centered way.

Matt Kahn:
And so, when I started to do the I love yous, which was very much inspired by the universe, I was very much using my voice to be a microphone through which source would speak through, and say to people the words maybe their subconscious was blocking, which is no matter where you are in your life, no matter what is happening, the universe is always supporting, encouraging, and loving you.

Matt Kahn:
And so, I made this an interactive I love you process. And with no expectation, it just took off and became this movement that we call the love revolution. And I'm just humbled by how it's expanded and just privileged and honored to be a part of bringing more love to this planet.

Cali Alpert:
When you say those words to people that you're teaching or speaking to, or even in the virtual world that you don't know, I hear that you're saying your spirit is speaking through you and you're channeling a larger source voice.

Matt Kahn:
Yes.

Cali Alpert:
Are you feeling it also from your yourself, like from your earthly human version of yourself?

Matt Kahn:
Yes, absolutely. When you're an empathic being and you could feel everyone's energy, that's one level of unity consciousness. When you go through an awakening of consciousness and you realize that you are spirit and we're all spirit, that's a different awakening of consciousness. And there's a certain point when an empath awakens to where...

Matt Kahn:
And I think an awakening, it's very common. People go through these stages where they feel like they could fall in love with literally every person they meet.

Cali Alpert:
That's the dream, right? That's what I think everybody aspires to, if you're on a spiritual path.

Matt Kahn:
And some people literally do that for a certain period of time. But for me, that's how I actually feel is I feel a sense of love for every human being. It's as if I'm feeling the love they desire from someone else and I am just there as a light being reflecting it to them.

Matt Kahn:
And as I channel spirit saying I love you through me, I literally feel, in a personal level, love for every person I'm working with, even when I find out the details of their life and whether they've been abused or they've been a part of abusing others, there is a certain level of love that doesn't, of course, justify behavior. But it's a love that can be best described as if you're a parent and the heart and everybody is one of many children you have. That's how I describe it.

Cali Alpert:
Separating out the difference between the actions of someone and the essence of someone?

Matt Kahn:
Yeah, it's a right way to put it, because we don't have to justify someone's actions because of their essence. And we don't have to judge someone's actions and negate their essence. I think there's a way that we can broaden this conversation. Where I think sometimes one of the most sophisticated false levels of security people find in the spiritual path is thinking they have an understanding of how things do and don't work.

Matt Kahn:
And I think that that causes us to oversimplify things. And I think that there's actually a rather complex or a needed complexity, where there is someone's essence that is pure love. There is someone's actions, which is how much of that love has been realized or trickled into their operating system.

Matt Kahn:
And so, it can't just be this overly simplified, I love it when you do things I like and I hate you when you do things I don't like. Because that, of course, is perpetuating suffering in our lives and the lives of other people. So, I think it's really, love as the answer is a very simple mantra and campaign, but it's a simple solution as we expand this conversation to include the complexities of life, where there are both human egocentric actions and there is a transpersonal transcendent essence, and how do we reconcile both without being the micromanagers of our everyday lives. And that's, I think, the solution that love brings to all of us.

Cali Alpert:
Which seems like it lends itself to the concept that love for ourselves and our love for others needs to ideally cover all of those different layers, including, if not especially, on certain days the shadowy parts, the parts that aren't fully integrated yet.

Matt Kahn:
Absolutely.

Cali Alpert:
Is that right? Because that leads to that integration. Does it not?

Matt Kahn:
Well, absolutely. Because there's a certain point where just as any parent would find out when raising a child, there's a point when a parent has to say to a child, "That behavior is not acceptable," and there's a learning curve, there's a course-correction, but the child should never forget how much they're loved.

Matt Kahn:
And so, I think really love takes many shapes and forms. Love is equally the hand we reach out to someone in need. Love is reminding someone they're never alone even if they feel isolated, lonely, and left behind in some way.

Matt Kahn:
Love is also the grace of a mother or a father pulling their child out of potential harm as they wander on oncoming traffic. So, I think that we have to really look at love as a spectrum of expressions and that there's a way in which we love ourselves when we are still working out and buffering out some of our egocentric patterning.

Matt Kahn:
And I think that that kind of love doesn't have to be fierce in a negative way, but it's really about boundaries for ourselves, boundaries we create with other people so that we're not mistreated on any level. But at the same time also having that soft, permissive love that says, "Hey, it's okay. You tried your best. Let's try again."

Matt Kahn:
And I think sometimes, and I talked about this at a retreat I just led a week ago. I talked about this really incredible imbalance that I find in most people on the spiritual path, which is they're either more compassionate than they are self-aware, or more self-aware than they are compassionate.

Matt Kahn:
And when we are more compassionate than self-aware, we're very permissive, we are enablers to unconscious patterns in ourselves and we enable other people to take advantage of us. And when we're more self-aware than compassionate, everything's in its box, everything is black and white and we could justify some unsavory behavior in the name of a greater good, which is not better than anything else at the end of the day.

Matt Kahn:
So, I think really what I'm talking about or discussing is how love fundamentally allows us to be as compassionate as we are self-aware and as self-aware as we are compassionate.

Cali Alpert:
And I laugh because I'm thinking that those two things are really opposite sides of the same coin, right?

Matt Kahn:
Yeah.

Cali Alpert:
There is really, and it's the messiness in between that is, I believe, where the real learning is, where the real curriculum is. Right? If those lines are so clean, that you describe, it feels like they preclude each other. They cancel each other out from somebody continuing on the very ride that they're looking to be on.

Matt Kahn:
Absolutely. In fact, you said that. And this is being recorded. I want to use that as a title, the messiness in between.

Cali Alpert:
It's yours.

Matt Kahn:
Oh, thank you. Oh my God. Happy. How am I going to be? Thank you. I think it's either, whether it's long or answer or whatever, I think it's a great title of messiness in between because, again, it's what, 2021? I mean, how much have we gone through as individuals and as a planet over the last two years? It's time for us to, I'm trying to think of an analogy.

Matt Kahn:
Here's the analogy. I think I did this at the last Omega Retreat, but it's like when you're learning Karate-Do dojo and you're practicing, people throw a punch or a kick and they hold it so you get to practice doing your snazzy blocks and you spar and it's in a controlled setting where you go, "I think I know how this karate thing works."

Matt Kahn:
And then, God forbid, you get into a fight outside of the [crosstalk 00:13:37] and it's fast, it's ugly, it's not pretty. I think that that analogy is funny for the spiritual journey because how many times have people gone for 30, 25, 40 years in lifetimes on a spiritual path, they decide where to sit, where not to sit, how long I stay, get up and leave, how much I want to listen or not listen, right? It's all up to you.

Matt Kahn:
But then you bring that into real life and the rule book is thrown away. Other people don't follow the same rules, other people don't care about your spiritual journey, other people don't even know how to care about themselves let alone care about another person.

Matt Kahn:
So, I think in that analogy, how do we take what we learned in controlled settings and apply it to a world that is more like a jungle? And that's what I think love, when taught in a very conscious way, or as I like to call holding space, is a very powerful way to learn how you can be fulfilled without needing other people to always meet you.

Cali Alpert:
You're reminding me of what I believe Ram Dass said about, you want to see how spiritual you are. You come off the mountain, you come out of the Ashram, go spend a week with your family and then you'll see how spiritual you are, right? Or go hang out in the middle of Fifth Avenue, New York City once you climb out of wherever peaceful, quiet place you've been studying and being a monastic and austere. And then you'll really see how spiritual you are.

Matt Kahn:
You know what I love about that quote by Ram Dass, which I love Ram Dass. I had the fortune of meeting him and he actually named me, although I don't use that spiritual name publicly. Incredible being. And I loved him when I met him. What I think is funny about that quote is imagine back in the '70s, when he probably said that, imagine that it took a week with your family to get you your-

Cali Alpert:
Exactly, rather than an hour.

Matt Kahn:
And I'm like, time is sped up where it's like now the quote needs to be, think you're enlightened, call your parents, read their texts. Because in texting, we don't know intonation. We only read it in our voice. We only read it in how we define other characters. So, you read a text, "Oh, really?" And we all think everyone's being sarcastic and passive aggressive, "Ooh, what are you avoiding?"

Matt Kahn:
So, I like how that quote gives that you would need a week. Whereas now it's like, "Hey, you think you're enlightened, think about your past for a half a second. Check your email."

Cali Alpert:
That's a really funny distinction. I'm sure he's smiling down on that thought right now. Your work supports the awakening and the evolution of all people. And the world has obviously been going through such an unprecedented time in recent years, of fear, and uncertainty, and the dismantling of infrastructure. So, I ask you, spiritually, what the heck is going on? It's a question everyone's asked in so many different ways. What do you think has been going on?

Matt Kahn:
Well, I mean, I think one of the positive aspects of a time like this in history is people don't need to walk around wondering when the apocalypse is going to happen or, "Hey, what about that book of Revelation?" This is book of Revelation the musical.

Matt Kahn:
I mean, what hasn't happened in the last two years? You know what I mean? What, a dead fish going to show up on the shore? I mean, what's next? But I think when we look at a pattern of how consciousness expands and ripples out from an individual to a collective consciousness, there's a certain pattern and formula I was taught by the universe. And that is, absorption foreshadows transcendence.

Matt Kahn:
And what that means is that individually or collectively, we have to be absorbed in a certain state, a certain emotional pattern. We have to be absorbed in it for a certain amount of time to build up the pressure that leads to the release and inevitable transcendence of that pattern.

Matt Kahn:
So, humanity has been steeped in fear because it's actually foreshadowing an inevitable transcendence out of fear. Humanity has been very steeped in division. We've talked about systemic racism more than ever in history. And we're exposing that through some of the abuses that happen in law enforcement, or the racial profiling, or the way things are taught in certain school systems.

Matt Kahn:
And I think we're being steeped in a sense of separation. And even if you want to look at it as, what side are you on? Are you vaccinated or not vaccinated? Are you a Democrat or Republican? Are you a moderate or a liberal? I don't even know what those two words mean, to be honest. I just know the term from a humanitarian and spiritual being, not a politician.

Matt Kahn:
We are experiencing so much separation because we are preparing to release and transcend it. And so, I think that when we understand that type of pattern, we can actually hold space for the intensity of absorption. Even if we want to look at how people define themselves in their lives, in their social media platforms.

Matt Kahn:
It's wonderful that everyone has a chance to influence and help other people, but a lot of times it's being used to create this facade of how you wish your life really was. Again, we're absorbed in identity because we're preparing to transcend it. And so, I think that helps us be able to have the faith, to be rooted in the peace, to be grounded in the presence and of course, centered in the love now through a time of absorption when we really need love the most and not just waiting to get to the transcendence, to open our hearts.

Matt Kahn:
This is really not only the most important time to become a heart-centered being, but if you can use this as a training ground to be heart-centered when a world is existing like this, there is literally nothing in existence that can shake or frighten you. So, I look at this as the most fertile ground for one's awakening and it's the most important time to learn how to be a heart-centered being.

Matt Kahn:
And as we master this, because we're having this experience to master absorption leading to transcendence, this is what gives birth and rise to a new world of unity consciousness.

Cali Alpert:
That's such a reassuring and hopeful overarching theory-

Matt Kahn:
Thank you.

Cali Alpert:
... for people to find some sense of peace, I believe.

Matt Kahn:
Yeah, thank you.

Cali Alpert:
And then my follow up question to that would be, for people that might not resonate as much with this kind of language and/or maybe so bogged down by their individual and more local experience that they're not at a place yet where they can look at it in such an overarching way, you talk so much in your teachings about the idea of praising everything and embracing what is.

Cali Alpert:
So, what do you say to people that are going through their really dark time individually that might need some convincing that what you just said and the bigger picture is the case? How do they embrace and lean into their trials and tribulations in a way that can maybe help them?

Matt Kahn:
I think that the way that we bridge this, we talk about creating a bridge, is through a bridge of self-acceptance. And the way I teach self-acceptance is a little more radical. I wouldn't say to someone who doesn't believe this, I wouldn't say, "I need you to accept that this is the way it is so that you can feel better." Even if I was to present it as you're suffering and this is the way out of hell, if you could only just accept this one thing.

Matt Kahn:
What I'd rather do is be more radical and say, "Can we accept that there will be a time where you will learn to find nourishment from within yourself and not define reality by the actions of other people? Can you accept that you're not quite there yet? You will be there yet. I'm not quite sure what I need to get there. I know that's where I'm going to go someday but right now I'm still steeped in judging the world by the way it behaves and blaming it for my experience.

Matt Kahn:
I know it's not where I'm going to be forever. I'm going to see things from a bigger perspective and I better be some Christmas miracle that shifts it, because I'm not going to do anything about it. But I will accept that this might be somewhere in the future I go and I accept I'm nowhere close to being there right now.

Matt Kahn:
And if someone were to say that, and if their ego wasn't defined as a spiritual character who would think that saying that was a moment of defeat, we actually feel openness, we actually feel support and we actually find that we feel the most supported when we are the most honest about our experience. Because the more honest we are about our experience, strangely the more objective we get about it.

Matt Kahn:
Most people are so personal about their experience because they're not honest with themselves about it. Even with themselves it's almost like how I want to be seen to myself instead of just the brutal honesty of, look, Matt, what you're saying is probably true. Maybe it's not true. Who knows? Maybe I'll be there one day, but right now could care less.

Cali Alpert:
Not so much.

Matt Kahn:
There's hatred in my heart and I still allow some hatred to play out. If someone were to say that that consciously, it would literally start to untangle and unplug all of what motivates them to mistreat themselves or harm one another. And that's what's so radical about self-acceptance. I think that would be the bridge I would suggest.

Cali Alpert:
It does feel like in that, if people were to just give themselves a permission slip to feel their truths, that that would accelerate their process more than they'd ever even realized without doing anything more than that-

Matt Kahn:
That's true.

Cali Alpert:
... in the short term.

Matt Kahn:
Well, and I think the reason for that is because when you are honest with yourself, even so honest that you don't like the character that you are acting out, like most people want to do nothing but seen for the opposite. It's very common when we're ego structures, right? There's a painting of our actions, but then there's a caption and people say, "No-no, don't look too deep at the painting, just read the caption."

Cali Alpert:
Like the little bubble above the head, right?

Matt Kahn:
Read the little paragraph on the side. Look at how wonderful a human being I am. Don't look at my actions. And I think what's interesting is when we accept that that level, just being honest with ourselves, no matter how awful it feels to just admit how we actually are, we are actually inviting our conscience, our conscience being the way our consciousness guides us to make choices when in alignment with our highest ethics and values.

Cali Alpert:
Have you lost any popularity contests with yourself lately?

Matt Kahn:
That's a very-

Cali Alpert:
And you know what I mean by that question?

Matt Kahn:
I do. I do. To be perfectly honest, I don't tend to lose a lot of popularity... From a very young age, I have always been on my side. I may not have liked how other people have treated me, I may have felt an unfairness about, I give this much and I get this little back, and I've had those experiences.

Matt Kahn:
When I was really young, I could judge and be mad at people for how they show up, which is just this feeling of unfairness of, I wish I was having different experiences. I wish I was being treated the way I treat other people. But if I really look at my life, I mean, there are times where I'm going through upgrades and I need to rest or maybe days where I'm just processing something so I'm just... I'm not always in a ecstatic, roll around in the ground state of joy. You know what I mean?

Matt Kahn:
I'm not always in a Madonna video or something like, "Oh my God, I'm such an enlightened being." I was folding laundry and then I started to roll around in it because it smells so good. I really cannot tell you, honestly, the last time I've ever turned on myself, even when I went through this last three years where I went through a really incredible heart-shattering healing that I went through.

Matt Kahn:
And I don't say this because this is how I'm trying to present myself but just the actual testimony is I was so there for myself, and I was so there with myself, and I can't actually tell you why or how I do that. I just think there are certain qualities that are inherent to people's beings that allow them to do the work they do.

Matt Kahn:
And for me, I think it's part of why I am able to do the work I do on such a level that helps so many people is because there is just something within me, whether the awakenings blew it out of my system, or whatever the case may be. I can be sad, I can be lonely, if the jar doesn't open in the first three tries, I can be frustrated. I haven't cussed at a human being in like 30 years. I've sworn at a few pickle jars.

Cali Alpert:
Not even in traffic?

Matt Kahn:
No. No, people cut me off all the time and I'm not... I'm not the fastest driver, I take my time. If you want to go, hey. I always leave early. I'm never late. There's a certain way I live my life and I'm fine with it. I keep up with the flow of traffic, but I'm not a speedy driver. So, if you have to go somewhere, hey.

Matt Kahn:
But really I don't. Even in traffic. I rarely use my horn. I just stop. Hope they see me. Maybe they will. Maybe they won't. We'll see. I'm listening to my music. Yeah, I can't say that I...

Matt Kahn:
It's funny. As I'm thinking about my life as I'm talking to you, I think there's a certain point of your life where you don't exist in a popularity contest. Meaning there's a point where you have chosen you where it's just about, it's kind of like a parent would be with a child. A parent is a parent to the child.

Matt Kahn:
And of course, there are times I'm sure when a parent wishes they could give back the child and, "Hey, we got a receipt, please source. Please. No-no, give us a credit-"

Cali Alpert:
Refund.

Matt Kahn:
And if you only want to give us a credit for the clearance price, "Hey, we'll take it." But there's a certain point where we love ourselves so much that we don't define ourselves as a commodity on an emotional stock market to where, oh, I'm selling high. Now my price fell and it's climbing back up again.

Matt Kahn:
There's a certain point where we are no longer engaged with what other people think of us. And there's not even a sense of what we think of us because we're not actually separate enough from ourselves to engage in either of those questions. So, I guess that's really the answer as I just think back on my life for a second.

Matt Kahn:
It's that there's a certain level of oneness with ourselves in life to where we actually don't even objectify ourselves as what do I think of me? What do they think of me and what do I think of me if they think of me this way? And I think it's a very interesting point that I haven't thought of in a long time.

Cali Alpert:
I'd like to go back to your reference to the last three years being difficult for you.

Matt Kahn:
Yeah.

Cali Alpert:
You've talked openly about having a breakup.

Matt Kahn:
Yeah.

Cali Alpert:
Is it okay if we talk a little bit about that?

Matt Kahn:
Of course, absolutely.

Cali Alpert:
I'm curious if when you're in a challenged place in your life when you're so used to guiding others, can you still heed your own wisdom and does your wisdom speak as loudly as it does for you as it does for other people?

Matt Kahn:
Actually, that's a great question. It actually does. The universe helped me through every moment of that breakup and my heart broke several times in three years with a relationship coming back together. Which was a great journey that I'm so blessed to have taken with that beloved in my life, and we're still incredible friends and I'm grateful. If I had the chance to do it over again, I would choose it over again and again, and again.

Cali Alpert:
Because of the lessons?

Matt Kahn:
Because of who I became as a result. And to be perfectly honest, I would endure that 100,000 times over for the chance to love her again. Honestly. And that's how deep my love was and is and will always be for her. And so, it was during those times when I needed Matt Khan the most.

Matt Kahn:
And for someone that I represent a lot of healing for a lot of people, whether on YouTube, at my events and worldwide. For me, this is not something I just do on a stage and I go home and take off the cape. This is my way of life. And I needed Matt Khan the most in the last three years. And I was the one I leaned on and it was my ability to channel for myself. Sometimes I would sit in a room as if I was on stage and I would channel just for me.

Matt Kahn:
I would literally fill the room with the same healing energy I do at events and I would just channel to no one but me. And I went through some of the deepest pain I've ever felt in my life, some of the deepest sadness and disappointment. I could have been resentful and I could have... After all the people I serve in the world, there's this one little thing I want.

Matt Kahn:
For me, there is such a love I have for life. There's such a love I have being one with the universe and there's just a point where we have so much respect for the pain and the healing journey that we can't pretend something less is happening or something more petty is happening.

Matt Kahn:
So, it was really to the credit of Matt Khan. He really got me through these last three years. And in exchange, I've become Matt Khan's personal chef, which delights his palate greatly. And so, it's a great demonstration of unity consciousness, where what I have done for other people I did and always do for myself.

Cali Alpert:
Well, thank you. I appreciate the candor and that vulnerability. That can be so helpful, I think, to our listeners-

Matt Kahn:
Yeah, thank you.

Cali Alpert:
... that are going through similar situations.

Matt Kahn:
Well, and just another aside on that. I remember a friend came over when I was going through the depths. And everyone has their own way of being helpful. And sometimes people will say, "What did you learn from this?" And a friend of mine asked me that question like, "What have you learned from this?"

Matt Kahn:
I could feel just the subtlety of that question. It wasn't a true, what have I learned from this? It was almost like it was coming from this weird place of what have you learned from this so to ensure it never happens again? Just that subtle, I'm going to hurry up and learn all my life lesson so I can manifest differently. Right? That whole negotiation.

Matt Kahn:
I turned to them and I said, "I learned that I can really take a hit." And they said, "What do you mean?" I said, "My entire life, I've literally been afraid of being emotionally, physically beaten up. I've been afraid of being jumped and beaten up and physically assaulted and I've been afraid of people. And I've been people-pleasing to keep people from attacking me for whatever reason."

Matt Kahn:
"And I learned I can take a hit, I can get knocked into another dimension and have every cell of my body scatter across the universe and it will come back together greater than ever before. So, I learned I could take a hit. I learned how resilient I truly am as a being."

Matt Kahn:
And they said, "Well, what would you do differently in your next relationship?" And I looked at them and I said, "I would love deeper and harder than ever before." And I said, "And it's that willingness to love more that really taught me who I was in this relationship."

Matt Kahn:
"It wasn't like, 'Oh, I don't want to be too attached because what if you lose it?'" I don't have that kind of cerebral avoidant mental process. Like you don't want to get too close to love because it can hurt you. I'm on the Shakespeare side. I'm on the Shakespeare side where it's like, "Better to have loved and lost than to never have loved again."

Matt Kahn:
If I'm in pain, I'll do a monologue, give me a skull, I'll hold it. I'll do Hamlet. It will be amazing or Macbeth, whatever that was. That's the side I'm on. Is that the pain I went through freed me to love at an even higher level, with even less fear of what's going to happen because I've already gone through what for me was inconceivable.

Cali Alpert:
I'm seeing some jet propeller energy underneath you, like a stealthy reserve to push you even further and deeper into whatever your next chapter is. And speaking of sustaining joy and connectivity and creativity, which is the umbrella theme of our show today, what do you think is the biggest block we have collectively and individually, the sustaining joy and feeling connected with our fellow humans?

Matt Kahn:
Hmm. That's really, really interesting. The greatest block I think is, of course, I'm going to give an overarching answer. I think the greatest block we have as human beings is a flawed system of distribution. And what I mean by that is that we have people who have a lot and we have a lot of people who have very little.

Matt Kahn:
And we have a lot of people who are struggling to make ends meet who don't have opportunities other people do. And when we have aspects of our society, whether you would think of it as underprivileged neighborhoods and how we start to see more of cities and states that are just in certain levels of socioeconomic balance or imbalance, the more opportunities or resources lack in any community, the more a human being has to get desperate and separate from their conscience and making decisions to "do what they have to do" for their own self-preservation, their own wealth, or the sustainability of their own family.

Matt Kahn:
To someone who lives in the neighborhood who has no opportunity to go to a college to better themselves and to live out the dreams that they have, and in their neighborhood, the only option is sell drugs or be a part of a gang. And I mean, this is a tremendous example, but for anyone to say what the block of humanity is, and not see that the blockages are actually created by a flawed distribution system. Because if everyone had more of an equal opportunity for fresh, organic fruits and vegetables, education and opportunity, then some of the things that people seek to make ends meet, or some of the artificial, external things people seek for false levels of comfort wouldn't lure people into a different type of internal spiral.

Matt Kahn:
So, I think that societally speaking, as we become greater in our distribution, which to me is not a political thing. It's actually a community thing. As communities come together to say, "Hey, I had five cans of vegetables in my pantry that are buried in the back and still have six months of shelf life. I'm going to go down to a food bank-"
Cali Alpert:
Pantry.

Matt Kahn:
"... pantry and I'm going to give it so that people can be fed." Then I'm actually being a part of a distribution system. And the more people that can be fed and nourished by a distribution system, whether it's education, food, or whatever, that's when people are no longer in such a socio-economical state of victim consciousness or survival mode and then we can actually start acting and making choices from our conscience, from our spirit instead of just treading water in attempt to make ends meet.

Matt Kahn:
So, for me, I think that's the really smart answer that for these times in 2021 needs to be addressed. I mean, we can say spiritually, people have forgotten their spirit, they're separate, they're blah, blah, blah. We can give that answer.

Cali Alpert:
Are you mocking spiritual teachers?

Matt Kahn:
Am I? Am I? I think what I like to highlight is what is outdated, expired and broken. And I think that the right conversation has to be our vibration is not demonstrated by a lack of thoughts, our vibration is not demonstrated by how good we feel in an uninterrupted state of whatever. Our vibration is not determined by how long we can meditate without being disrupted by other people's actions. Our vibration is defined by what we do to assist in redistributing wealth, opportunity and goods and services for the benefit of all beings. That to me is true unity consciousness.

Cali Alpert:
So, in short, just to finish that train of thinking before we get to our final three rapid fire questions today, would the simple wrap up on that be that first collectively as society, we need to really decide that with intention, that that's what we aim to do?

Matt Kahn:
Yeah. I think what it has to be is that, it's a two-way street. Spirituality, when you're in your alone time, is about your own self-exploration, your own nurturance of self-compassion, right? Where you're doing all the different things you need to do to become more self-aware and equally self-compassionate.

Matt Kahn:
And the other part of the spiritual journey is how you come back out from going within. And it becomes the way in which you live your life. And it becomes not just making sure that you are being a pillar in your community and being a leader in your family, but maybe as a family trip once a month.

Matt Kahn:
Maybe every time you go to the grocery store, you buy one extra can. And at the end of the month, you and your family and your children go down to a food bank and you give it to... And you feel how good it feels to help other people be fed, or you and your family donate time at a shelter.

Cali Alpert:
As we talk about it in Omega a lot, it's where personal growth meets social impact.

Matt Kahn:
I love that.

Cali Alpert:
The two can't live without each other.

Matt Kahn:
You really can't.

Cali Alpert:
Within and without, right?

Matt Kahn:
That would be like someone standing there, their village is burning to the ground around them and they're like, "Yeah, but you see how brightly my chakras are shining? Have you ever seen my vibration this high? Seriously? I don't even want to move because I'm going to ruin it."

Matt Kahn:
"Yeah, the village is on fire. I see that. But have you ever in your life seen a light body this activated?" And we laugh because laughter is how we process the inconceivable nature of imbalance in life. And it's how we make peace with injustice and start to turn things around in the right direction. So, it's funny because we can find the truth in it.

Cali Alpert:
So, finally, I would like to ask you three questions that I like to ask every guest. First, I'd like to grant you one wish for our listeners, what would it be?

Matt Kahn:
Ooh. One wish for the listeners would be to be so whole in themselves that their greatest joy would be sharing something in their life with another person. So, I think the wish would be, yes, I want all listeners to be whole, sovereign, loved, connected so that other people can benefit from the generosity that comes from that aligned way of living.

Cali Alpert:
What is something you wish for yourself?

Matt Kahn:
What do I wish for myself? Well, I am very excited about meeting the woman I'm meant to be with one day. I'm a hopeful romantic, so I very much I'm excited about that. I'm not rushing around looking for it, but I'm very ready in my life to have that type of relationship. And on a personal level, I'm very excited about that. And also, if it was a two-part wish.

Cali Alpert:
Sure.

Matt Kahn:
I would say that, in addition to my spiritual teaching, as a passion, I like to cook. It's something that's really become a part of my life. I would love to one day have my show on the Food Network.

Cali Alpert:
So be it.

Matt Kahn:
So be it, and so it is.

Cali Alpert:
And finally, what is the most important offering or tip you'd like our listeners to take away from our conversation today?

Matt Kahn:
That's a wonderful question. I would say that there is no time in our lives when we are unworthy of love. The loving ourselves is not about loving the sadness, loving the hatred, because that's kind of a, oh, I love it. No one loves it. I think what the shift is, like with my book title is Whatever Arises, Love That, people thought I meant that as in the external. Because that's where our Westernized culture's focus is, is on the external.

Matt Kahn:
But really that is actually you. So, it's not loving sadness, but loving the you that is sad. Not loving fear but loving the one who is in fear. And so, I think that really when we see that, when we're feeling any which way, low or high, that's when we deserve the most amount of acceptance, praise, acknowledgement, and validation.

Matt Kahn:
And whether it's a great high or a tremendous low, whether we like how we feel or wish it was somehow different, can we love ourselves the way we wish others could love us? Can we be that for ourselves? And when we do, we find the wholeness and the fulfillment that literally starts to transform our hearts and our lives from the inside out. And then from that space of self-love, we find it instinctive to be the change we wish to see in the world.

Cali Alpert:
Well, I thank you so much-

Matt Kahn:
Thank you.

Cali Alpert:
... for making the time today to have this conversation with me.

Matt Kahn:
Thank you.

Cali Alpert:
So inspired and so insightful. If our listeners would like to learn more about you, where can they find you?

Matt Kahn:
Well, my website is mattkahn.org. That's M-A-T-T-K-A-H-N.O-R-G. And you can sign up for my free newsletter. It goes out every Sunday. You get a free download when you sign up. There's an events calendar of events, whether in-person or virtual. And it's just an honor to be here with you. I love the Omega Institute so much, and I'm so excited to return to in-person teachings. I know that when I do, Omega, and you're beautiful [inaudible 00:46:23].

Cali Alpert:
We look forward to that. Thank you so much.

Cali Alpert:
Thanks for dropping in with Omega Institute. If you like what you hear, tell your friends and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, it helps new ears find us. Dropping In is made possible, in part, by the support of Omega members. To learn more, visit eomega.org/membership, and check out our many online learning opportunities featuring your favorite teachers and thought leaders at eomega.org/onlinelearning. I'm Cali Alpert, producer and host of Dropping In. The music and mix are by Scott Mueller. Thanks for dropping in.