Cali Alpert:
Welcome to Dropping In from Omega Institute, a podcast that explores the many ways to awaken the best in the human spirit. I'm Cali Alpert. Dropping in today, Lisa Williams.

Lisa is a renowned psychic medium, best-selling author, television personality and spiritual teacher. Born in England, she was discovered by Merv Griffin, and introduced to audiences through two seasons of her own hit show, Lisa Williams: Life Among the Dead, along with Voices From the Other Side, and Lisa Williams Live.

Lisa also offers courses and psychic mediumship through the Lisa Williams School of Spiritual Development. Her mission is to bring healing, hope and guidance to anyone seeking the answers to life's greatest questions. Welcome, Lisa. It's so nice to have you. Thanks for dropping in today.

Lisa Williams:
Thank you. It's so lovely to be here.

Cali Alpert:
It's so nice to meet you.

Lisa Williams:
Yeah, you too.

Cali Alpert:
And you were just saying that... What were you just saying about this space, just before we started rolling?

Lisa Williams:
This space is so incredible. I haven't spent enough time here, and that's my fault. And I really encourage everyone to come here, because the energy is just amazing. So yeah, you just want to sit here and take it all in. It's beautiful.

Cali Alpert:
Our Ram Dass library. I'm glad you enjoy it. Thank you for that.

Lisa Williams:
Absolutely.

Cali Alpert:
So let's start with the early days of you recognizing your gift, as a little girl in England. I know your grandmother, and I think also your aunt, were psychic?

Lisa Williams:
That's right, yes.

Cali Alpert:
And your parents thought you were a little kooky, right? So where did you first find the validation? When you first started seeing entities and feeling energies, did you have someone to go to, or did you harbor it to yourself? How did you even handle that as a little kid with no frame of reference?

Lisa Williams:
So I didn't have a frame of reference, and you're absolutely right. Because when it all started to manifest itself within me, I was four years old. And my grandmother at the time, my grandfather was still alive, so it was all behind closed doors. And she hadn't quite come out herself as doing psychic medium work.

And when he died, when I was seven years old, I remember my grandmother saying to me... I've just got a vivid memory of her going, "She's like me." And I just remember her being in the house and her saying to my mom, "She's like me." And my mom like, "Oh." And my dad's like, "Oh, forget that."

It was so interesting, but I didn't really go to her. I had no frame of reference, I just thought everybody did this. And I think one of the things that was very interesting, is when I was probably four or five... We lived in a block of apartments, and I looked over and my mom had the curtain shut for some reason. Old school.

And I looked down and I'm waving at this guy, and she said, "Come away, come away." And I went, "Why?" And she goes, "Come away." And I'm waving at this guy on a motorcycle, and he's waving at me, and my mom went, "There's a funeral, stop it." And little did I know, they were actually at the funeral for the guy who died on the motorcycle and he was there waving at me. And I thought, "Well, it's normal."

But I didn't really embrace it until I was much older. Because at that time, back in the '70s, '80s, it was all shoved away, "Shh, don't say anything." And I think it was only really until my grandmother did it, and my grandmother said, "You've got the gift too." That I went. "Oh, okay. Now it makes sense."

Cali Alpert:
As you described the experience at age four as a little girl, it begs the question, "How does one separate between..." Because kids have very active imaginations and creativity.

But also, perhaps somebody with your lens would say that imagination and creativity are just unfiltered, like being tapped in at an early age, before we get layered with life and all the things that kind of close our channels, right?

Lisa Williams:
That's right.

Cali Alpert:
So did you know how to separate out between imagination and having your gift?

Lisa Williams:
So I was always branded with having an overactive imagination. And it's interesting, because now I tell my students, "Imagine. Create." Because our brain doesn't understand what is fact and what is fiction.

So when we start to recognize what is fact and fiction, then we go, "Oh, that's wrong." And so, the creative mind actually needs to expand, it needs to think of the wealth of possibilities that are out there.

And so, I didn't know what it was. Now, I recognize that my creative brain, my opportunity to... Because I was very musical, very artistic, very creative. I was not the academic. I was constantly in that space. I was constantly creating, constantly making up wild ideas. And it was reality to me. And so for me, I don't think I understood it until much later, and now I'm teaching.

But at the time, I think I just accepted it. And I just accepted being... I know it sounds weird, but I accepted being weird. I didn't like it, but it kind of made me a little bit stand out from the crowd, if that makes sense? And I was okay with that. It never really got me down.

Cali Alpert:
That's really interesting in and of itself. Because often, when you hear people talking about being different as children, which a lot of us can relate to. All you want to do is fit in and have more of a status quo, a sort of acceptance.

And the fact that something inside of you knew to validate your differentness is pretty powerful. That's pretty early for most people to experience such a thing, I think.

Lisa Williams:
It really was early. And I think back now to my high school years, and I realized that... My dad always said, "You should have gone to acting school, Lisa." Because I used to be okay on stage.
Of course I wanted to fit in, and I would get very upset and say, "No, but I saw it." But then the more I started to experience it, the more some of the kids were like, "Can you tell me what color such and such is going to be wearing?" Or, "What is going to happen? Are we going to get the test tomorrow?"

And so, it kind of became a novelty in a way. Yes, I wanted to fit in, but it also gave me that, "You want me." Kind of thing. Because I wasn't part of the in-crowd, I guess. But it also made me that, "Oh, she's interesting." So it was just an interesting time really, back then.

Cali Alpert:
When did you first discover that your gift could heal people?

Lisa Williams:
Wow, that's a good question. I don't think I realized that my gift could heal people until much later into doing readings.

So I thought at the time it was just, "Oh, I need to earn extra money, so I'm going to do readings on the side." And then the more I started to do this, and the more tears that flowed, and the more people that knocked up my door, and the more people that wanted the connection. Then, I started to realize there was a deeper need.

And interestingly enough, I became a psychic junkie myself, because there was something going on in my life and I kept turning to psychics, turning to psychics, turning to psychics. Until there was a moment where I went, "Stop. You now have to rise above all of this, change your ethical approach and actually become something of value."

And it was at that point... And I'd probably been doing this work about five years at that point. And it was at that point that I went, "I have to make sure that no one else becomes codependent upon a reading, so that they cannot do their own life." And I think that's when I started to realize the impact of this work, and that I was just here to heal.

Cali Alpert:
Do you say that in terms of your experience, because you were experiencing a lot of charlatans, or people that weren't really treating you with the integrity that you'd like to see?

Lisa Williams:
Yeah. So the experience was, we were on the phone with these people and it was late at night. And she said, "What this card means is this, this, this, this, this. What this card means is this, this, this..." And I went, "Are you reading it from a book?" And she said, "Yeah."

And I literally just put the phone down and I went, "Wow." And it was just money, money, money, money, money, money. And I thought, "You are scamming on the people that are so needy, so desperate." And I think that's when I changed my whole philosophy, and that was 22 years ago.
And now, I carry that through in my whole everything, because people turn to us more than they do therapists. They turn to us in so many ways. And I'm like, "If I can just help one person, it's integrity, it is coming with authenticity, it is my ethical approach. I'm not here to harp on someone's misfortune or anything."

And I think it's very important that we raise the ethical standard, and make this industry professional, and the professional ethics and have a credibility about it, because the world needs hope.

Cali Alpert:
To say the least, it does.

Lisa Williams:
And that's what we're providing.

Cali Alpert:
You mentioned the circumstances that are often referred to as the spiritual bypass. Or when someone is in mourning or pain, they can't skip the steps, because you have to walk through the emotionality of a loss. And yet, it's also a very natural inclination for many people to turn to somebody like you.

How do you walk that line with people that you know and don't know, even just representing your industry? How do you encourage people to find healing in the emotional psychological realm, and then also at the same time, support the kind of work that you do?

Lisa Williams:
So, it's twofold. One of the biggest things that I actually say to people is, "Please do not come to me much before three months." I talk about a three-month window, because that's your own sacred time to do your own healing.

Now, there are extenuating circumstances that that can change. Such as, they had a reading scheduled and then suddenly, sadly a death happened. And that's when I go in very carefully and I'm very, "Listen, please do not keep going to psychics and mediums to get answers." So, I really encourage that.

But then what I've found recently in my work, what I've been doing is, I've been doing a lot of help with families of people who are transitioning. And so the family... And I've been working a lot with hospice, where people have been asking me in hospice, "Why are they holding on? Can you tell them? Can you communicate with them?"

And in that space of me communicating to the soul, on a soul-to-soul level, I'm then able to provide comfort to the family. "Listen, they're hearing you. They're ready. The body is just going through its process." And so what I'm able to do, is connect with the family, and bring them the comfort and the final messages before the transition.

It recently happened in my life, and one of my dearest friends, I was doing it for his family. And he came through with so much gratitude that I was able to communicate.

And then after that I went, "Listen, I would love to communicate with you and bring him through, but now it's time for you to heal. Now it's time for you to take your time, do what you need to do. You're never going to heal that hole, but to do what you need to do to make it easier. To go through the pain, to go through the upset, to go through the sadness. And then we'll celebrate him." And I think that's the most important thing.

Cali Alpert:
I've never heard this concept before. I love the idea of a psychic medium working with people almost in a palliative way before they cross over.

Lisa Williams:
Yeah.

Cali Alpert:
That's so amazing. That must be so helpful.

Lisa Williams:
It is one of my biggest passions. And I've found recently, I've been called upon more, and more, and more. And what I've actually started... And I'm actually going to be teaching a class on this. And what I've found is, there is a way to communicate with the soul when they are asleep, or they're in on morphine, or they're going through their transition.

And what I'm noticing is, it's not much different communication-wise from the deceased to the living. And as they're going through this transition, they still need a voice. They may not be able to speak, but they want to go, "Hey, I'm having fun. Oh my God, why did you have pizza last night? You don't eat pizza." You know, all of those things.

And that confirmation is that feeling of, "They're hearing me." Which also brings about, "Stop arguing over the bedside. Don't talk about the funeral over the bedside. Can you go out the room, because they're hearing this." Those sort of conversations. "And by the way, they'd want to wear the pink shirt. Not the pink lipstick..." Or, this and that. And it's so interesting.

And I remember walking into my friend's funeral, and I wasn't close family. And his mom and dad came running out, grabbed me into the family room, hugged me, and said, "We cannot thank you enough for what you did, and what you've done, and how you've helped." And they said, "We hope he's going to be happy with the funeral, because it's everything that was suggested by you." And it was everything. And I'm like, "Oh my gosh."

So now what I feel is important, is to educate other psychics and mediums how to do that with care and with compassion.

Cali Alpert:
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What does this work, be it the work you've been doing for decades as a channel, or helping people transition now, do for your relationship with death?

Lisa Williams:
Oh wow, good question. I think for me, it's made me more peaceful. It's made me appreciate, "Look, I'm here to serve. I'm here for a reason. I'm here for a period of time." I don't look at death as a problem. I look at it as a natural transition. As long as I'm, "It's going to be peaceful and everything else." I'm okay with it. I mean, we all just want to fall asleep and go in our sleep really. I mean, let's face it.

But I had to come to terms with it in my own way, facing death. I'm realizing that I can't control anybody else's passing. I can't control when someone's going to pass. We all have our own life path. And really, it's just for me to give them the best experience that I can in that period of time, whether it be family or friends. And just accept that it is a natural part of life.

Cali Alpert:
Have you ever healed parts of you, with your own channeling?

Lisa Williams:
Oh, absolutely. I mean, I wrote a book called Divine Wisdom. And that divine wisdom was me having difficulties in my life and literally saying, "Okay, spirit, help me."

And I would be sitting on aircrafts. I would be sitting at the stump in Lily Dale. Or I'd be sitting in my car waiting for a meeting. And it would just be a quick down, and I would type it out. And after, I'm like, "Wow."

And so, absolutely. If you've got the gift, use it for yourself too.

Cali Alpert:
Has your channel, your spirit team, your gift, changed over the decade since you started doing this work?

Lisa Williams:
All the time.

Cali Alpert:
How has it changed?

Lisa Williams:
So my master guide, Ben, he hasn't changed. But then, other people have changed. And I think for me, I've gotten stronger. It's become clearer. It's become strong. And it's so funny, because I scratched my nose. That's when spirit comes in. It's so weird.

But it's because, I have to listen. My energy has just increased. When I need to listen, it's like they're there. I feel this presence. And the team themselves, if I'm going through something, they'll change. Or if I'm teaching a certain topic, they'll change as well.

I think it's constantly evolving. We'd all be bored if we worked with the same people every day. So I feel that it's all a variety. It's very important for us to have that family.

Cali Alpert:
And it is your family, right?

Lisa Williams:
Oh, absolutely. It is my family. Yeah. They're more than my family.

Cali Alpert:
Is your family bigger in the spirit world, or on the earth plane?

Lisa Williams:
I think my family is bigger in the spirit world. Yeah, yeah. Now I've got extended family in the spirit world as well, with my husband's former wife that transitioned. So it's just become extended constantly. Yeah.

Cali Alpert:
Do you find that you have to be super protective of your energy, or is it more of an endless reserve? Do you feel like you have to find ways to replenish?

Lisa Williams:
I wish it was an endless reserve. I think it's very important that you protect your own energy. For me, I very much have hardcore boundaries. So what I like to do is, I pull myself back. I used to say I was such an extrovert. I'm now one of those introverted people. I pull away. I do my own thing.

And I also am very healthy, because I'm very careful about my vessel. My vessel is sacred. If my vessel is not 100%, then how am I able to do my job? And I feel that I'm constantly learning how this all works and how our vessel is so important.

And I think it's also part of getting older, naturally. But it's important to actually take care of ourselves. And one of those is boundaries and sleep.

Cali Alpert:
So do you have a daily practice?

Lisa Williams:
I do have a daily practice. My daily practice starts at night. It's very important, because I make sure I go to sleep. I make sure I set an intention before I go to sleep. And I make sure I have really solid, good sleep.

And then I wake up in the morning and then I do my meditation. And when I wake up, that meditation could be for a variety of different things. I always say there's two types of meditation. One, purposeful, "Let me connect with my guides." And one has to be for self. So my morning is always for self.

And then I make sure I try to walk and I make sure that I am healthy. So I look after my body with what I take in, or the supplements.

And then I have to have an hour and a half for myself in the morning, whatever it might be. I think it's important to learn. I think it's important to study. I think it's important to grow. I think it's important to journal. And those are some of the things that I'll incorporate in that time.

And then later on in the day... It's so weird, because I feed the dogs and then I meditate. It's weird. And so, I feed the dogs, and as they're doing their thing, I will sit there for the time afterwards and I'll just be. And I'll just have maybe 15, 20 minutes, just... And guaranteed, the dogs are on me. But it's just finding peace. And I think that's important.

Cali Alpert:
I've heard you talk about belief as a teacher, that everybody has this gift to some degree or another, and that they just need to tap into it or open up to it. Is anybody exempt from that, or do you believe that everybody really is included in that?

Lisa Williams:
I think from what I've seen, everybody has the gift, certainly where intuition is concerned. Even the most skeptical person, i.e. my husband. He will have this intuitive vibe that I just feel and I'm like, "What's going on with you?" But if he wanted to hone his skill and his ability, he could.

Now, I see it as being someone who is a singer. There are some people who have got the natural ability of singing, and then there are some people that don't have the natural ability. But with the tweaks and lessons, they could definitely hold a tune, and they could sing within their range, and they can sing.

So I think really, it's how much you want it. "How much are you willing to work at it? How much do you want to put yourself into that space and say, 'I can do it.' " Because I do feel as though anyone can do it.

Cali Alpert:
Can you speak to what seem like universal signs, when everyday people believe they're experiencing visits from the other side? Where electricity starts getting funky, or the phone rings and there's no one there, or a song comes on. Or a smell becomes pervasive in the room, but there's no explanation. Are those truly signs, and how does that happen?

Lisa Williams:
Of course they're signs. They're absolutely signs. So it's kind of a multitude of things. So let's say for instance, pennies from heaven. It's a very common thing.

It's not like our loved ones went, "Quick, she's coming, let's go and drop a penny." Okay? It's not. What they've done is, the penny’s already there. They've influenced you to look at it. They've pulled your mind down to go, "Oh, there's a coin there." The music. Again, the music is around, but it's us going, "Huh?" And you are hearing it. There's an influence from spirit. "Hey, listen..." And you could be in a grocery store and be like, "Oh my God, that a piece of music. That was my wedding song." And it's because spirit has influenced you as if you say, "I'm still here. I'm still here."

The electricity, it's the spirit connection, because spirit uses electricity. So they're connecting with us, they're vibing with us.

The book that drops off the shelf... I hope nothing goes right now. But they're actually going to be like, "Hey, we've been warning you about something, now we're going to make you sit up and listen."

So these signs are everywhere. Just looking out at the clouds, "What do you seeing in the clouds?" When spirit pop into your mind, when your loved ones pop into your mind with a memory, don't you think that that's them coming through and saying, "Hey. Come on, listen." So they're all around us, we just overthink it. We just go, "Oh no, we can't." But we have to really just go, "Okay, I accept."

Now here's the other part of it. There are some people who will go, "Now, Dad, if you are around, you're going to give me a sign at 4:45 tomorrow afternoon and it's going to be this." Well, he's just going to laugh at you, and he is going to send that sign at a totally different time, a different way. Because we can't dictate it. We have to allow it to come.

Because I know people will do it. I've done it. We've all done it. So I think it's important that we recognize that spirit's going to have to work their own way.

Cali Alpert:
You referenced your book, Divine Wisdom. You wrote that in 2018, I believe it came out, right?

Lisa Williams:
I did, yes.

Cali Alpert:
And you did share a lot of wisdom for the masses, about what spirit wants us to know. Here we are now in a very trying time with so much chaos, and dismantling, and challenges, and struggles, and countless issues and divisions.

What does spirit want us to know, that you're aware of, that can help us process, understand, find some relief, some peace?

Lisa Williams:
So it's interesting, because while we were going through the pandemic, I dedicated myself to 101 days of messages. And they gave me all of this information, all of this wisdom, which I shared on social media.

And what came out from that was, we're in a time of change. We can't just be blind. We can't just ignore. Now it's a time to stand up for your belief, to stand up for who you are, to stand up for what you want.

And that, we have to find peace within ourself, and love within ourself, before we can start spreading the love and the peace, because it starts within us. And we are being forced to see things differently. We are being forced to see the world in such a powerful way, that we have to recognize the peace within us.

Cali Alpert:
So what do you suggest? What are some actual steps that people can take to try to, number one, find that inner love and that inner balance, and then take that outward? Because it's a lot.

Lisa Williams:
It is a lot, and it's a lot of pressure. And there is a huge amount of pressure on individuals to go, "What is my purpose in life? What is my purpose for me to do this work? How do I need to show up?"

And honestly, I would recommend that they sit back and go in. Journal, meditate, find that peace within themselves. And then get the guidance, whether it's from their higher self, whether it's from spirit, whether it's from wisdom that they read. Just take that moment to go, "Okay, what is it that I need?"

And then once there's a feeling, share something. Share that passage. Share a little bit of writing that you did. Share something that helped you, with your neighbor, your friend. And be compassionate, and find kindness, and share in that love.

Because it's a ripple effect. I'm not here to change everyone's lives and to convince everyone about mediumship. Someone here is going to be listening to this, and then share it, and share, and share, and share. And all I'm doing is dropping something in the ocean and the ripple is going out. And that's all it is.

Cali Alpert:
So you have embarked on a relatively new chapter in studying psychology and neuroscience?

Lisa Williams:
Yes.

Cali Alpert:
Can you tell me what prompted it, and exactly what and why?

Lisa Williams:

I've always been fascinated with the brain. And obviously, over the pandemic everyone was coming to me for learning. And I thought to myself, "If I do not learn, how can I help others?"
And I became fascinated by the medium's brain. And I started to understand, "How do we get messages? How does it come?" Because people ask me all the time in my teachings, "How do we do this?" So I went, "I'm going to learn this."

And so, I did a very short course at Sloan School with MIT. And I thought, "Okay, I'm going to try it." And I learned so much about how our intuition works through the vagus nerve, into the limbic system. And how our gut has to be really... real good gut health, to make sure our intuition is firing off. All about the importance of sleep, and nutrition, and water, and everything else. Everything that I suspected.

And I went, "There's more to this." And then I started to look at the way the pandemic was going, and I started to see all the mental health problems. And how, as mediums and psychics, I am carrying someone's life in the palm of their hands, not just for the hour that they're with me, but for the rest of their life.

Because you can guarantee that someone can't remember what they had for dinner yesterday, but they will remember word for word, what somebody said in a psychic reading, or a medium. Absolutely, you're going to remember it for years, whatever you chose to hear. And so I thought, "There's more to it." I needed to understand it. And so I embarked on a master's degree of psychology and neuroscience, to really try to understand the concept of how the medium's brain works. Because it's never really been done.

There are studies by Yale, and there's other studies that are actually happening. But these are scientists... Jody Spencer's one of them. They're scientists who are bringing it into spirituality. I haven't really seen anyone that's studying spirituality, and now proving it with science. So I pulled my big girl panties up and I went, "I'm going to do it." Which is a big, daunting task.

But there is a lot of correlation between having a healthy brain and the limbic system, which is the amygdala, the hippocampus, everything with the emotional part of our brain. That we actually, as mediums, tap into.

And so now, I'm trying to help where people think, "Oh, you're really weird. Oh, you're mentally ill, because you speak to spirit." So trying to understand the difference between psychosis and mediumship. And it's so powerful. And my tutors are now addressing it, which I find is wonderful.
So I want to, by doing these studies, normalize what we do. Make it more professional and allow science to have some part in this. Because before it's just been, "Oh, it's just energy."

Well, there's got to be a science behind energy. Let's understand the science, let's understand the mind. And that's what I plan on doing. And so yeah, it's a big task.

Cali Alpert:
It is, in your free time to take something like that on, right?

Lisa Williams:
Yes.

Cali Alpert:
It's almost like creating a new study, the physiology of intuition and psychic abilities, is what I'm hearing. And trying to really find the more physical and physiological scientific route of it.

Lisa Williams:
And I did a study over the pandemic, with many mediums. And I made them document what their sleeping habits were, their eating habits, how they drank their water. And what it was like when they were doing readings and how connected they were.

And it worked out that above 90% were like, "When we're sleeping good, we have no stress, we are eating well, we are drinking our water, and we are exercising, we've got the oxygen, we are able to do it, and the connection is so powerful."

And rewiring the brain, going through simple neuroplasticity of allowing people who are coming into the industry... Because there's been an influx of people coming into the psychic medium industry. And understanding that they have to think differently. And you working out is going to help grow those neurons and rewire those neurons for what you need to do.

Cali Alpert:
With everything in mind, this course that you're on right now. What is your hope for mediumship and its relationship with society, let's say in the next 5 years, 10 years?

Lisa Williams:
Oh. My hope in the next five years, is that mediumship will become more and more accepted, more and more professional. That there will be an awareness. And the ability to help others. And I feel that it's a really important part of life.

It’s actually a really important part of death. I would really love it that we could incorporate our services into funeral directors, into hospices, into helping with the transitions, working with the death doulas. In so many different ways, because we are just the beginning.

There is no end, but we are the beginning of the communication to the other side. And what we're actually able to do is to prove to people, “Life continues on.” And it's for us... Mediumship is changing. Everyone can do mediumship. People are starting to believe now. But we now have another purpose, that there's more out there that we have to do.

It’s not just communicating with grandma who knits little doilies and everything else. Now, we have a purpose to help heal families, to heal the soul, to help the soul transition, to be there in times of need. And just really understand that there is that purpose, and to make it normal.
And I've realized that I'm bringing credibility and professionalism into an industry where people are seeking to learn about the afterlife, or to learn about the spiritual industry.

And I had to realize that there has to be a professionalism, because as someone who is in the industry at quite a high level, there's a massive responsibility at my shoulders. And I could just continue on, but if I want to, now I've got to change it and make it more professional. And that's how I went, "Okay. I'm doing it."

Cali Alpert:
Finally, I have three rapid fire questions that I'd like to ask all of our faculty that join us here in Dropping In. The first one is, I'd like to grant you one wish for our listeners and viewers today. What would you grant them?

Lisa Williams:
I would grant them peace and hope. And realize that you can find peace and hope within, and it's really just a belief.

Cali Alpert:
And what's one wish you'd like to grant yourself?

Lisa Williams:
My one wish that I'd like to grant myself is happiness. That I continue to remain happy doing what I do, in a lifestyle that I love, and being able to be happy.

Cali Alpert:
And finally, what would you like our viewers and our listeners to take away? One thing from our conversation today, if you had to choose?

Lisa Williams:
That there is an afterlife and it's just about choice. And that really, if you choose to believe in it, there's a whole wealth of opportunity out there waiting for you.

Cali Alpert:
So if people would like to find out more about you and all your endeavors, where can they find you?

Lisa Williams:
They can go to LisaWilliams.com, or social media, anywhere like that. But really, LisaWilliams.com is the best place.

Cali Alpert:
Thank you so much. I want to thank you.

Lisa Williams:
Thank you.

Cali Alpert:
What a beautiful conversation to have with you. Thank you for making the time.

Lisa Williams:
Oh, it's been a pleasure. It's been amazing. I appreciate it. Thank you.

Cali Alpert:
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I'm Cali Alpert, producer and host of Dropping In. Our video editor is Grannell Knox. The music and mix are by Scott Mueller. Thanks for dropping in.